A serious question...

[Kila]

I believe that if something is worth believing in, gives you moral support to live out your days as a good person, than I will never say anything bad about it, even if that something is completely untrue, false and a lie. For instance, religion. While I am Catholic, I would never try to push my beliefs upon another person who believes in seven gods and worhips chocolate because those ideals make them try to be a better person.

I ask this because my boyfriend and I were arguing about it the other day... am I wrong for thinking like this?

I believe that if it's not causing harm to anyone else, why change it?

[naughtypanda]

I'm not sure I should get into this one... Mini yells at me when I involve myself with this sort of talk. And then she punishes me. Like... spanks me... and stuff.

Personally, I don't believe in organized religion, because as of late religion has caused nothing but trouble for anyone not of. Actually... all across time, this has been the case, people just turn their heads to it cause it's not what they wanna hear or see or know.

I don't believe you have to be religious at all to have a belief in a higher power, because I'm not and I do.

As human beings, we innately have the power to do good deeds and make the right choices. It's not because we're Christian that we're good people or anything like that, because if anything, it's because we're good people that we're truly Christian. Christian means like Christ or Christ-Like, but if you haven't noticed alot of people who claim the religion are greedy, selfish, rude, hypocritical and just all around unpleasant as people.

And I can't say I've met my share of amazingly kind and generous catholics, either. No offense or anything. It's just that my grandmother is catholic, I've been in catholic homes before, and all of them have just been a little bit to strict and prudish for my taste. If you're different, great for you.

In general, organized religion, to me, is a form of control. Religious leaders, just like world leaders, set up or highlight laws that must be followed to be in this religion, why? What other reason is there than to control the populous.

I'm not going to hell because I'm gay, and I'm not going to hell because I eat meat on good Friday, and I'm sure as hell not going to hell because I don't go to church on Sundays.

As for your bf, what's there to argue about? Cause the way I read it he believes that people should follow a belief system like his. I won't say that's right, but it's what he believes. Just ask him if it gives him peace of mind fussing over it so much, or ask him what it's worth.

You're not wrong in what you believe because, while a little bit misguided, you've pretty much got it. It doesn't matter what faith you have as long as it brings you and the others around you peace and harmony and... yadda... yadda yadda... you get it. You've got it.

My sister is Pagan. Pagans were among the first religions in the world, and they are the basis for all proceeding religions, yet they're suddenly devil worshipers? C'mon... my sister doesn't worship the devil.

I think we need to dump all religion and start over on a clean slate. Start fresh and actually get it right this time, cause as it sits we've pretty much screwed things up.

[Van The Mighty]

Well, I don't know about dumping it all and making a clean slate, because everything is a bit too set for that by now, but I can see where you are coming from Panda.

And Kila-chan, if you feel right about it, then don't worry! Religion is one of the most-argued about things in the world, and it's also sparked more than a few wars. So if Phil wants to argue religion, tell him he's being silly and that there's nothing to argue about, and then kiss him! (XD 'cuz I'm sure if you do that, it'll end any arguement right there!)

^^ But no, you arn't wrong. Your view is probably the best ones that I've heard in a long time. I'm proud of ya Kila-chan.

-Van-kun

[Amara<3]

I do believe you are right Kila. I happen to be following Christianity and I hate it when people try to shove their religion down people's throats, and I know how it feels to be annoyed to no end, so I don't do it to anyone else. Now, Digi, I'm not sure where you were going with the Christian thing, whether you were counting that in with the 'organized religion' or not, but I am fairly sure it's not. We don't have one single person to look up to, and no single person makes the rules.

One of the men at the church was speaking, I'd say about a month ago, and he said that "Christianity isn't a religion. It is a group of people following the Bible." Which means that if someone left the church, that is to say the Assembly, and say moved to a foreign country or just stopped going, they can still be a Christian is they truly believe and follow the Bible.

I know that the people in my church are very nice people. My grandmother is Catholic and a very nice person as well, though I don't much like the people at her church because of gossip and rudeness and such, but there are a few of them are truly nice. There are a few churches however, that when you walk in because of curiousity and start telling them where you're from, and what church you go to, they're instantly rude to you and are very unwelcoming unless they try to convert you right where your standing. That isn't to say that my church is perfect, because it's not and recently we lost a member of our assembly do to the gossip inside the church.

Part of it was against my mother, because we're having a hard time still with the move to this place and as a result of the last two years, my mother has grown ill, from stress, and she just can't take it anymore. Twice this happened that the church elders got together and had someone speak on why it is wrong to do this. The first time was just a small warning, the second time a month later when it hadn't stopped wasn't as pretty. The speaker was angry that it hadn't stopped, and told the entire church to stop talking about my mom, the people that didn't believe in our faith, and whoever else was being gossiped about. It's really sad when the meetings have to be used that way, but if it doesn't happen, it won't stop.

I've heard many people talk about Christianity like we're idiots for believing such a thing, but I look at it this way. I'd sooner believe in something and be wrong, as to say there really is no God, than to not believe and find out he's real. I mean, it just seems safer that way, and once your dead, you find out. If we had the ability to find out where souls really go, I'm sure that all religions would still be here because people are that stubborn. If we didn't follow a faith blindly, and all knew what would happen to our souls, we'd all be a little more careful, a little nicer, a little more... just, I think.

~Keera

[naughtypanda]

I never said she was wrong. I'm pretty sure I said she was right, actually. Lemme go read that again... yep. Said she was right.

*Shrugs*

I was gonna defend myself, but now I guess I'm not. Nothing I write out seems like it would make much of any difference, so I give in this time.

I'm not an unbeliever. I'm a little jaded, sure, but I still have a great deal of faith inside of me.

I would assume it's because I don't follow any religion that you assume I don't know much about them. You would be wrong. I was born into a religious family. My friends are religious. Some of my greatest interests are in the spiritual beliefs of other religions.

I don't base any statements I've made only from viewing everything from the outside. I've been on the inside plenty.

And I take everything into consideration, and make my judgments based on what I believe is right and wrong.

As for Christianity not being a religion? It is. It's one of the worlds largest in the world. Just because you don't have one specific spiritual leader like the pope... that means nothing. Neither do alot of other religions, and they're still religion.

If it were so easy for just one or a few people to go ahead and say something, and then it were so... believe me.. I would have said alot already.

[Amara<3]

Oh wow that's really rich. I don't recall saying that you didn't know anything, or that you were looking at everything from the outside. Hm, let me check... nope I didn't. You actually said she was misguided, guess I should have taken that as "You're right!". Sorry about that mistake. I'll be sure not to make it again.

Dude, where did I call you an unbeliever. I'm pretty sue I was referring to the general populous that happen to be unbelievers. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

I never said you didn't know anything about religions. I study them myself, actually. I should have made that clear too I guess.

Ha, actually, it's not one of the worlds largest religions, sorry to burst that bubble. It used to be one of the largest faiths, but it's not now. Ah, but a lot of actual religions look on that don't have a living person look to some great religious leaders from the recent past. It. Is. Not. A. Religion. Don't base Christianity off of other religions, that's a bad accusation.

You know that last part doesn't have anything to do with what I said, and you're trying to make it sound like I'm saying that there should be only one person to tell people what's going to happen. I clearly said that if we knew where we went after we were dead, we'd all act differently than we do now. I never once said that if someone said something and then it would be so. If it was what you thought I was saying, you wouldn't be the one shouting out the commands anyway. If that were the case, I'd find a way to go to hell just to spite you.

Stop trying to make this personal. It's a freaking debate. I used my family and area of living as an example, not as a personal outreach to hurt someone else and tell them they know nothing about what the debate is about.

[SilentSpork]

(I didn't read the last 2 posts, hope you guys have had enough time to agree to a misunderstanding and have unspoken condolences so that we don't get off track.)

Kila that is the way of seeing it I think most maturing minds have now days. Old hostilities are wearing out in America each new generation. I think in the end the temporary fading of religion we have seen, and in turn of these hostilities, is what is going to save religion since it makes practicing the actual important parts of religion easier.

We are all trying to figure out whats going on and no one is right. No one ever will be. Still, partial credit is how I pass my math classes so we might as well try to gather together all the small parts each of us has right and then try to make something of it. Hopefully, assuming there is something after this, we'll get enough partial credit to be happy with our lives.

[clayton]

I agree with you, while not religious myself I still hold on to my beliefs even though alot of them have almost no substance to live on. For example I believe everything in existence is capable of goodness. Wether or not they outwardly show it, or if they can only show it to a single entity, I belive that every soul out there is capable of some form of benevolence.

As a result of that most people think Im n aive, too trusting, even to people I just met, but I still believe, no matter how hardened a person may be there is still something in them of worth.

Dont give up on your beliefs. Sometimes they are all you have. =)

[Amara<3]

I can't believe all this was three years ago... It doesn't seem to me that this proboards IYRP has been here THAT long lol.

Anyway, I agree with you Remus. It's not necessarily religion that makes us better (or worse in some cases). It's more that our values and the things we do believe in are what makes us better people. If we have nothing to believe in, then we're broken, despicable people.

I'm going to say this one more time though, to back up what I said so long ago in here: I am a Christian because I follow Jesus. I don't belong to a religion. Religion preaches of all the good things, and how good they are, but all they have are great, huge buildings to "worship" and they leave the poor, starving and dying people out in the streets while they're inside enjoying nice warm meals and having a great time.

Jesus Christ was persecuted by religious people.

He didn't have a lot of money, he didn't storm any religious temples to take over or start wars. He was simply good and kind hearted, and taught people lessons in humility, but above all, he loved everyone.

Religion hates and sparks wars. It's unnecessary and it's stupid.

[clayton]

I agree with that whole-heartedly. Religion on its own is good. Only when you attempt to organize and spread it does it become a bad thing.